Orion Q&A Session #11

By Wes Penre, April 12, 2023

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Welcome to The ORION Book Q&A Session #11. Please send more questions about the book, or on general topics to wespenre2@gmail.com, and put Q&A in the subject line. For those who want to order The ORION Book, which these Q&As are based upon, please go to Amazon, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BRLXB8Y3.

Question 1: You mentioned in The Orion Book, referencing Prof. Sam Vaknin, someone becomes a narcissist because they are not able to experience a healthy separation with the mother figure. I believe you may have mentioned in previous articles that a narcissist does not have spirit. Does this mean that even a spirited being who was born into a narcissistic family and was abused by both parents and didn’t experience a healthy separation will become a narcissist making them void of spirit?

Comment: A very good and important question! It is true that the narcissist has no Spirit, and I’ll try to explain why in this comment. Let’s say we have a married couple, where the mother is a narcissist, or somewhere high on the narcissistic scale. They get a regular human baby, comprised of soul-body-spirit body (3-UC). This baby gets commonly neglected or otherwise abused in different ways, but also is refused to disconnect from the mother at age 6-18 months. This complete human child, as a coping mechanism, is now very likely to develop a “false self,” which takes over completely to protect the “real self,” the toddler. The toddler stops developing and hides “behind” the false self. The false self now becomes the “real self” (the only operating self), i.e., the narcissist. The true, hidden self has Spirit, but the false self, the person’s identity/personality they use the rest of their lives, has not.

Spirit exists is all those who are humans, but few people are in connection with it, except for brief moments, and even then, most people don’t know what it is they connect to. It could be moments of epiphanies, of creation, associations with art and/or being an artist, a creator, etc. But it’s still just a fragmental connection. In a narcissist with a false self, there is zero, or next to zero connection. They are in 100% survival mode, and that’s why they always need to be in control.

Question 2: Why is instant gratification so frowned upon here, when in Orion, we could create instantly? I don’t think about instant gratification in the sense of addiction. I understand it in a second concept as well, in the sense that we want to create something, and we want to create it NOW.

The only way we can satisfy instant gratification here in the Kenoma, is through currency. That leads to spending problems, which can be seen as a problem. That’s only one example of the typical understanding of instant gratification.

On the other hand, in Orion, we created instantly, isn’t that Instant gratification as well?  Even if it were for a selfless purpose. It sounds like En.ki wants us to forget about our abilities as creator gods/goddesses through morals.

What are your thoughts?

Comment: I don’t think instant gratification in itself is frowned upon here—it’s more the way people act to achieve it. These days, more than just a few decades ago, we demand getting instant gratification, e.g., “I want a BMW now!” Unless the person is completely delusional, they know it won’t just appear before their eyes—not in this matrix. Instead, they take money they either don’t have (bank loan or on credit), or they exhaust every penny they have. It’s nothing wrong with buying a new BMW if that’s what the person wants, but it’s the mindset behind it. I have so many time that a person may be depressed over something, so they sooth themselves with a new car, or even a house, they had not planned to buy. It’s spontaneous, without thinking through the consequences. At first, it makes them happy and excited, and then, after a week or two, they highly regret getting in debt. Others want instant gratification because someone else on Social Media has something that makes people admire them, and others want the same. Without any planning, they go buy this expensive thing, and if possible, try to beat it. I am not suggesting all these people are narcissists, but it is narcissistic thinking—people who want to be the most grandiose and entitled. Today’s society is creating these traits in people, and it’s deliberate.  

When we lived on Tiamat in the Spirit Universe (KHAA) there was instant gratification, and it could be selfish or unselfish, depending on the situation. Also, not all selfish actions are bad. Only if they hurt others or oneself. But as Namlu’us, we were evolving on Tiamat, so not all creations were beneficial—we had to learn to create, which was the purpose with the Experiment: to learn how to create with love, compassion, and empathy.

Question 3: I have had a relationship with a woman I love, since 2013, very likely as you described in Orion book. It started as a romantic relationship, I felt unconditionally loved, and love-bombed, and everything was amazing. Then, after a while, a devaluation process has begun as you said, followed by all those steps that you described. I experienced the worse years of my life. I lost myself. All the time I yearned for that first time period, and I feel I still do. I feel her as a drug, a narcotic. Her name is Adriana. Once I started to name her Adrijuana. Understand? Adriana + Marijuana = Adrijuana.

What does not seem to be like in your description regarding a narcissist is her relationship with her mother. What I remember from her stories about childhood, somewhere at the age of 2-3 years her mother was very sick and was about to die. Little Adriana heard about this and suddenly assumed the responsibility of taking care of her mother. But, starting from that point, she became like an adult for all other people: children, mature people, and old people. The role was reversed in her relationship with her mother. Adriana became the mother, and her mother became the child. And it seems that her mother gladly accepted that because she had a bad childhood.

So, as I see it, we cannot say the true self of Adriana is either an infant or a little child, who never developed. What do you say?

In the last few years, I observed a change in her, bit by bit. For example, one year we had a cat in the house that she borrowed from her mother. She loves this cat very much. That cat was like an alarm indicator each time Adriana was starting shouting at me. When this occurred, the cat went to Adriana and began to argue with her very loudly. Then, Adriana stopped shouting at me and remembered her love for the cat. That was a good year and after that, something remained changed in Adriana’s behavior. Then, she started attending some personal development courses, on healing relationships with her mother and father.

Now, at her initiative, we separated temporarily. At first, I felt treated unfairly, and rejected, but I realize that it is good for both of us because around her I am no longer myself; I become her instrument, her press, and I am her plasticine.

I did not make these connections from the beginning. After some time since I read The Orion Book about narcissism, an inner search began in me, starting from that expression “love-bombing”. At one point, this question appeared in me: What if…? And I began to consciously dig into the details of what you described.

Please share with me what you feel about this. Thank you.

Comment: Of course, I don’t know the person you’re talking about, and I can’t give a valid diagnosis because I don’t have a degree in psychology or have met the person, but from what you’ve told me, I can share my view on how it could be in a situation like this.

From where I sit, it still sounds like a classic example of what Prof. Vaknin talks about. You mention the love-bombing, the devaluation, and eventually the discard (even though she says it’s temporary). But it’s what happened in between all this that is interesting and can be misleading for people.

You say the “mother issue,” as explained by me and Vaknin, probably doesn’t apply to your partner. I would say it does. She has still not disconnected from her mother, from what it seems. The fact that she had to play the role of the mother of the family, and also to be the mother of the real mother is a typical example of not disconnecting from the mother. Instead, she got more attached to the mother than most other children. You mention that in her case it was reversed, and I can see what you mean. But if you think about it, where is the disconnection? I can only see a tighter connection, although a very, very dysfunctional one. And one of the worst things (quoting psychology here) parents can do toward their children is to make them take the adult role in the family and become parents to their parents and siblings. That makes the parental child very prone to obtaining narcissism.

Then you mention the cat. Yes, you probably experienced this as a break, not having to listen to your partner shouting at you anymore, but on a deeper level, she showed all this love and affection to the cat instead of you. In other words, you could not make her calm because you were “bad” in her eyes and must be shouted at and abused, while this cat easily could calm her down and show affection, and therefore, the cat deserved love, and you didn’t. What I see (from what I hear) is her prioritizing the cat before you. Even if you did not see that when it happened, things like that stick in the subconscious as an invalidation and can be detrimental.

Last, in all situations in life, listen to your heart and your gut. If you feel you can’t be yourself around somebody, something is not cool. If I were you, I would continue looking into this situation and make a decision that benefits you. Every living human has the right to live without being abused. Because the world is what it is, that’s impossible, one might say, but at least one should require it in a romantic- and friendly relationship. There, no abuse should be allowed. If abuse continues in such relationships, after it’s pointed out, it should be a clear sign that you need to disconnect from that person. Why would anyone deserve to be abused? We are alive 3-UC, born as such to enhance the Universe, not to be minimized and made submissive to abusers, like so many people are. Narcissists ALWAYS know what they’re doing, and narcissism is a choice, regardless of what people might think.

Here is a short-video that we all need to always keep in mind if we want to avoid abusive people: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4Sg1arJnDGw.

Question 4: May I ask what your thoughts are on opening oneself up to various energy “healing” modalities such as reiki, quantum, etc…? If we as humans are blocked off from spirit / KHAA in our physical realm, then which or whose energy is the practitioner opening themself up to during the connection? Would it be the collective soul energy? Based on what I understand, with the help of your material, it wouldn’t be the Overlords’ energy?

Comment: I know very little about Reiki and other similar and dissimilar practices because I have never been interested in them or drawn to them. That’s just me, of course. The problem I have with many of these practices, from the little I know is, how does the person know what they are connecting to? It could be one’s own spirit body, it could be astral beings, deceptive entities, etc. Can the person really distinguish? If they can, and they are sure of it—great! If not, who knows?

Everybody must do what they feel they need to do and learn from it, so I’m not saying people should avoid these practices. I’m just saying they don’t resonate with me. I prefer finding my own connection within, by working on myself and knowing myself better. That can be done alone to a large degree, but it works best with some kind of partner, romantic or not, whom you completely trust and has a similar mindset, so you can learn from each other by opening up and exploring yourselves. That’s the fastest way toward healing and learning I know of, and according to therapists, it’s even better and faster than conventional therapy.

Question 5: Since soul fires exist in our every physical cell in our bodies, theoretically, would a person who practiced long and hard enough be able to morph somehow (something small and basic, like changing the colour of their eyes for example)?

Comment: Yes, we are theoretically capable of shapeshifting to some degree in the Matrix with the right and consistent training, by rearranging and affecting the cells in our body. Most of us do that on a regular basis without knowing it. When we feel extremely good, we suddenly look younger and “like a new person,” and people may comment on that. The opposite is true, too. When we’re down and out, we look different, and the comments from others will be different. We subconsciously change the shape and look of our body, depending on how we feel inside. That is not a conscious thing, though, but you can consciously morph, as you said, to a lesser or greater degree with training. I have never tried or trained myself to do that, so I’m not the right teacher, LOL.

Question 6: What I would like to know your thoughts on is the inner voice that guides us. Is this voice our spirit, or is it pure ego, leading us down the wrong path?

Comment: Most people have different voices in their heads. I would be very careful trusting them, though. Most of these voices, or narratives, are not us—they are phrases and thoughts we’ve picked up from others—very often from abusive people, and these voices stick. They can sound like our own voices, but they are not. There is one inner voice that is uniquely ours, but it’s sometimes hard to tell which is what. Instead, I am doing my own inner work to get rid of as many voices as possible. Sometimes, the fake voices can give us “good” ideas, when they are really not, and will lead us astray long-term.

Instead, I would advise trusting your heart and your gut feelings (voiceless). As strange as it may sound, these homo sapiens bodies are quite intuitive—they must be to survive in this harsh environment we call Earth. So, it’s a good idea to listen to what our body tells you. Also, when I say listen to your heart, I don’t just mean the physical heart, of course, but your inner compass. When you truly listen to that, you are in contact with Spirit (your spirit body). The spirit body can be trusted. That’s your Higher Self everybody is talking about. The Higher Self is not a Higher Soul, it’s Spirit. You know you’re connected when you feel the truth in what you’re thinking. You just “know.” When you just “know,” you are most likely in touch with the real you—your “real voice.”

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  1. Many great comments on narcissism here. I am in my sixties now and looking back I’ve seen all the great failures and breakups in relationships, even other than my own, that have all ended tragically in some way. Narcissism is truly a weapon used by the overlords in this construct. However since this construct and the Spirit universe itself is made up of mind-souls, we have great responsibilities over our own minds and behaviors. The saying “wherever you go there you are” is very true so you better make friends with yourself and, better yet, learn as much as you can about yourself
    and others before you get out of this construct. It took me a very long time to learn how to be alone by myself and I think this is why people believe they have to be in a relationship whether it be abusive or not. Of course this can go to the opposite way so we need to have relationships and balance, but just don’t let them be abusive. Folks, don’t be afraid of yourselves, get to know yourself and I truly do believe you will connect to Spirit.

  2. And to the skeptics I see most often here, even if all that Wes says is bollocks,, what does it hurt by working on yourself and being the highest aspect of yourself, it’s a win-win situation folks and if an exit plan is forthcoming definitely take it, more importantly be ready for it. It’s not like he’s telling you to drink the Kool-Aid and suicide out now to get out, everybody would be running for sure then, but he is not. I believe this information and Knowledge comes from a true source of Love. Like Jimi says “if I don’t see you again in this world, I’ll see you in the next, don’t be late. Don’t be late.

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