Orion Q&A Session #4

By Wes Penre, February 23, 2023

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Once again, thank you for submitting your questions! This time, I got quite a few, but I don’t want to make this Q&A too long, so I will post more of what I got next time. But please submit more questions at wespenre2@gmail.com, and put “Q&A” in the subject line, so I don’t miss it.

Here is a link to Amazon if you are interested in ordering The ORION Book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BRLXB8Y3.

Question 1: Considering the new information regarding narcissism in The Orion Book, is the information you published earlier still valid? I think you wrote that narcissists were composite souls sent here to traumatize humanity.

Comment: Yes, it’s still valid. To me, it makes sense that it’s a mix of three categories:

1. Traumatized children, who never got to separate from their mothers and were severely abused. They create a false self (as discussed in The Orion Book).

2. Some are possessed by demons or malevolent entities from the astral. This might overlap with #1 above in some cases, I think. Particularly psychopathic narcissists might fall into this #2 category, and some serial killers, perhaps.

3. I would suggest some narcissists are not even human but NPCs (Non-Player Characters), sent here to traumatize us and delay our awakening process. Abusive people also collect loosh (stolen soul energy) from their targets, which the Overlords can feed from.

Narcissists diagnosed with NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) are like machines, which is quite odd but still true. This is also verified by Sam Vaknin, PhD., who himself is a narcissist. Once we know how narcissism works, they become extremely predictable—even if they come from different parts of the world and are grown up in distinct cultures. We know narcissists program themselves to develop a “false self,” but the strange thing is that they all create the same program. If you know one narcissist and figure him/her out, the next narcissist has pretty much the same coping mechanisms—it’s all on automatic. They even use the same kind of language when they manipulate, regardless of where in the world they live.

Some children seem to be mean from birth, although those might be few.

Question 2: In the book you mention that the Matrix was put in place to keep other people out and to keep those inside in. There can be movement across the Matrix boundary only with permission. What does that mean for starseeds, and anyone who says they’ve come here at this time to help humanity in the fight between light and dark? How did they get inside the Matrix if they needed permission first; and if they needed permission, why would En.ki allow that? Are people waking up within the Matrix, and so have regained some memories of who they are?

Comment: What I meant by that in the book and in the Wes Penre Papers (wespenre.com) was that the Matrix was set up that way. Now, things have slightly changed. There are holes in the Grid, where soul-minds can get in, although most of them get captured and sent into the reincarnation wheel. There are too many holes, and the Overlords/Archons can’t guard them all.

I don’t know why some people call themselves “starseeds.” All souls are starseeds—that’s how souls are made. Although there might be a very few soul-minds who have entered the Matrix with the sole intention to help, I would say they are exceptions from the rule. Even those are getting caught into the reincarnation cycles and trapped. They would not so easily regain their memories. My own logic tells me that most of these so-called starseeds are just regular humans who are waking up like the rest of us, but at the same time, they want to feel “special,” so that part of them, which is grandiose and “important,” is most likely their imagination rather than a fact. That does not mean they want to help and are waking up. Young people today who are waking up are usually doing so faster than my generation did. I think that’s a lingering effect from the nanosecond, between 1987-2012, when we were aligned with the energies from the Galactic Center—the Central Fire.

I understand this viewpoint on star seeds may be controversial, but I’m saying the above based on my own research and conclusions. Not everybody will agree.

Question 3: Since you say our soul has been split into many units that are living other lives, do we have to wait for all these other fragments to die and leave the Matrix before we can be a whole 3-UC again?[1]

Comment: The short answer is no. To be a whole 3-UC, we only need the following combination of three: soul-mind-spirit body. Our concentration should be on going through the Grid after body death. Then, when we’re on the other side, my advice is to think ourselves to the Queen, who will help us out from there. If these other soul aspects of ours (soul splinters) need to reconnect with the soul part of us that exit the Matrix, the Queen will help us with that. Only concentrate on two things, 1) exit through the Grid, and 2) think yourself to the Queen (Orion is thought responsive).

Question 4: How does one deal with the loneliness of knowing the truth and failing to educate others? I’ve come to realize that the more you learn and break free of this matrix created by EN.KI, the more people you lose somehow, most of them toxic, but still the loss causes loneliness. One of my friends that I’m still in contact with knows about the global elite and believes in life in the universe. But she wants to reincarnate no matter what. I told her about your amazing and wonderful work, which helped me a lot (you’re actually one of the few, maybe even the only truthseeker whom I fully trust since your work resonated with me deeply), but she refused to read it. I told her that if she wanted to skip the WPP, I could buy her the Orion book, since Amazon doesn’t exist in her country, but she refused. It’s as if she was shocked that I wanted to leave this hell and shook her head at me. She’s a very practical person, so maybe she thinks that my fantasies have gone too far. But I know in my heart that the story of the WPP and the Orion books is true. I also know that everyone’s story is different.​ Still, I feel like I’m failing, especially with helping the only friends that I have left.

Comment: This is unfortunately something so many people deal with when they are waking up. They feel isolated, they may lose friends, partners, and make other “sacrifices” because they are no longer on the same path as the majority of humankind. My advice is always, when it comes to educating others: give them some bits and pieces and see how they react. If there is no interest, leave it! Don’t force anything on anybody. Not everybody is up to the point where they start questioning things and really begin to dig deeper. Most people are too afraid—particularly to look inside themselves. Truth seeking is not only something we do outside ourselves, such as in books and videos. That is a small part of it, and something we do extensively up to a certain point. But one day we realize that we can only find so much truth in literature and online. The real work starts when we look into ourselves for healing. That’s when the truth is revealed. Then we need less and less outside “evidence” of how things work. We just “know.” Real truth-seeking is an inner journey, not an outer journey. It’s the Journey of the Mind.

When it comes to loneliness, the only soulution to that is to find like-minded people. Sign up on forums, make contact with people you are drawn to, discuss what you have found out, and ask questions. Sharing is essential because it speeds up the awakening process. The most important thing, all categories, is communication! Whether it’s in a romantic relationship, or otherwise, communication is the key to everything—honest communication. If that is lacking, and we stop communicating in general, we will eventually go backward. We will keep everything inside, and it builds up. We become more solid and dense instead to the intended opposite. We don’t need a huge group or friends, etc. It is even enough to have one or two we can communicate with—it’s all an individual choice and depends on our needs. But there are forums online where we can find like-minded. I have a forum, too, for those who don’t know, and it’s at https://wespenreboards.com . Anyone can join!

Question 5: You recommended a video by Sam Vaknin on YouTube titled “Narcissism: why you can’t get over them w/ Sam Vaknin.”  I cannot find the title on YouTube.  I tried to copy and paste the link in the book’s footnotes but I’m not able to.  Could you provide that hyperlink for us?

Comment: I am sad to say that since The ORION Book was published, there is a copyright dispute between Sam Vaknin and Richard Grannon, who both appear in the video you’re looking for. Therefore, the video is taken down from both channels, and it’s uncertain if it will ever reappear. We will see. If so, I will link it to this blog at https://wespenrevideos.com.

But there are other videos on the similar topic by Sam Vaknin, so I will link them here, and I highly, highly recommend them!


Question 6: In the Orion book, it stated that En.ki was the first narcissist. If that is so, would his mother (Queen Orion) be at fault, as you mentioned that all mothers are at fault?

Comment: I would say yes, in a sense. We naturally tend to think that the Queen of Orion is all-knowing and in control of everything. She is not. That is just something the Biblical God (En.ki/YHVH/YeHoVaH) has manipulated us into thinking that HE is. The Universe is created with an intention to expand, letting individual soul-minds create the Universe as they go along. Therefore, no one knows what will happen next—not even the Queen. When She created En.ki, who is an Archangel, the Universe was fairly young, and She did not have much experience operating in Her own Universe. She is learning together with the rest of us who inhabit it. She created En.ki as an Archangel with certain traits, and lacking others that regular soul-minds have, e.g., the ability to achieve Spirit and become a creator god. If we do a little research on Archangels, we see they are envious of us who are born with Spirit, and En.ki, as the firstborn of Archangels, initially saw himself as being “above” all others. He taught soul-minds things they needed to know, but he started looking down at them, seeing himself as superior to them. He became entitled and grandiose.

I would say the first narcissistic injury probably happened when some soul-minds gained Spirit. Archangels can’t. And he saw the Queen’s love for Her creations, and he got jealous—and he showed it. At that point, the Queen probably had no idea about narcissism, and what that entails. Then, when Archangel Michael (Ninurta/Prince En.lil) got En.ki’s position among Archangels, it led to a complete narcissistic injury, and one thing led to another. I think even the Queen got wiser after She noticed En.ki’s reactions to Her actions. My conclusion is that something like this happened when it comes to arch-narcissism.

Question 7: I’m confused…if there are holes in the grid, wouldn’t that make the water from the firmament seep through?  I know a dome covers or is under the grid but how do we go through the dome?

Comment: The Grid is positioned around Earth, and so is the Dome. The Dome is physical, and because the 3-UC is not physical, the Dome won’t affect us after we die. We can go right through it, just like a ghost can go through walls—the 3-UC exists in another dimension that is not 3-D.

It is the Dome that keeps the upper water separated from the lower waters (rivers, oceans, etc.), according to Genesis 1 and many other ancient texts, from which the Bible took its narrative, and it’s done with technology. So, first we have the Dome, and “above” the Dome is the Grid, which is non-physical, and therefore, we need to find a hole through which we can leave. When we’re in the astral, we are already in the cosmic waters. And of course, outside the Grid, we are, as well.

I don’t want to confuse the matters, but we tend to think about space as distance, but that is only a projection. There is no distance. This is why we can travel with our minds; particularly when we are not trapped in the Matrix. The mind knows no distance—travel is instant. If you live in America, think about going to Australia in your mind. How long did it take? I would say it was instant. Everything that is outside is first inside us (to make terms that are useful when we communicate about this). Everything is sharing the same space—we just travel by changing our vibrations as soul-minds.

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[1] 3-UC means “3 Unit Composite.” To be a complete human, we need to comprise three units: soul, mind, and spirit body. The spirit body is the Namlu’u body—not the homo sapiens body. Most people today are disconnected from their spirit body because of our amnesia.


  1. In addition to the question about how to wake other people up with this information, I tried to give my own son a copy of the Orion book as a gift and I’ve always talked about this stuff so he knows and he’s pretty awake, but he refused to take the book. He said he was on his own journey and he’ll figure this stuff out himself whether he wants to go through the grid, or not but of course he’s Young so I understand he’s not ready for this information but maybe someday he will that’s why the Queen is holding this construct together right now, I believe, she wants people to truly wake up! And everyone is on their own time schedule seems like.

    1. I would like to add to this too, as well great job Wes did in condensing all this information in his book and telling it in a story like way. To really respect this information you have to Know or did research before into all these hidden truths, but never had the full story. For example I’ve studied, so much of this and Egypt for many many years and always knew there was good and bad there through all the myths, never understood why. It was because they were all there, trying to get along, it was a watcher society! So to just give this information away to somebody who hasen’t earned it, well you see what I mean. Thanks Wes keep trucking man!

  2. Hi Wes,

    I read this before work this morning, and I have been very disturbed by question 6: “In the Orion book, it stated that En.ki was the first narcissist. If that is so, would his mother (Queen Orion) be at fault, as you mentioned that all mothers are at fault.”

    I have not read the book as of yet and perhaps I’m taking this out of context.. but, are you saying that if a mother has a child who has true NPD, it is the mother’s fault?

    Thank you.

    1. No, this is not my idea. It’s been known through studies and statistics in psychology since the 1980s-90, and Professor Sam Vaknin has expanded on this concept in the last few years. Yes, according to studies, NPD develops when the mother does not let the child explore when they are 6-18 months old. You know, the age when the toddler runs away from mom. If the mom constantly refuses to let the child do this, and perhaps even punishes the child, there is never going to be a disconnection between mother and child, and NPD develops. In all relationships later in life, the narcissist then marries their surrogate mother (their partner), whether the narc is a male or female. This is subconscious. First, they love bomb their partner, then they devalue him/her, then discard, and last abandon the partner (divorce/separation). The narc tries to separate from their REAL mother, but because it’s not the real mother, the narc continues with the same pattern in the next relationship. This often works the same with friendships.

  3. Thank you for your reply. Interestingly, there is a long line of diagnosed narcissists in my husband’s family and my maternal grandmother was also a textbook narcissist. My grandmother was the youngest of eight girls living during the great depression with a father who abandoned the family to live with his secretary. My great grandmother was a wonderful woman who raised highly functional and otherwise emotionally healthy daughters. As for me, I was actually very attuned to my daughter’s needs and allowed her to safely explore her environment as I did with my other children. I was also aware of attachment theory and how secure attachment is established…yet my daughter still turned out to be bordering on narcissism/psychopathy where my other children are kind, empathic, non-manipulative adults. There are many factors that contribute to a person developing narcissism, including genetics/epigenetics/transgenerational trauma/familial patterns/other caretaker participation or lack thereof. To be honest, and with all due respect to your work, I get so tired of mothers being blamed for anything and everything that goes wrong with a child. This has historically been the narrative, mostly from “expert” men (psychologists, psychiatrists I have little respect for…like Freud). Fathers and society play a huge role yet get off scot-free. It’s a dangerous and upsetting notion to promote as there are thousands of good-enough mothers (think Dr. Winnicott) who love their child and allow them to separate. Things are not as simple as Sam Vaknin’s assertions. And, I think you’re right…some children are just born evil.

    1. there are genetic oriented studies indicating that the malignant narcissist traits (psychopath traits) that concluded some decades ago that these traits are passed through the x-chromosome, perhaps the inheritance from Lillith through Cain from the biblical narrative…
      the mitochondrial DNA comes only through the maternal side, and activates the mother’s DNA with the DNA of the donor’s (biological father) mother, and so on in the genetic-tree. Note please the word logos in biological, and logic, we are indeed hardwired with tendencies right from the factory (mother/grandmother), why the precise and accurate use of words in the narrative each one uses to describe one’s self, and Self, is either an act of further entrap-ment or leberation….
      thank you Wes for your efforts in distinguishing the difference in written and oral transmission of the nature of our realm…
      Cheerful Love , GrizzlyBear hug

      1. Good post. Regarding chromosomes, it’s yet another way in the patriarchal creation (En.ki) to suppress the feminine energy, which is the creative side of us all, whether we are men or women. The patriarchy would not exist if they’d let the feminine energy flow free.

        Language, as we know it, is more often a curse than anything else (literally). People are cursing each other daily, without even being aware of it. If we look up the definition of words and look at their heritage, as far as it’s possible, it can be quite revealing. We are keeping ourselves in this construct, more so than being emphasized, by using language. Hardly nobody knows the definition of the words they are using.

    2. Well, I agree with you, mandobe 11. This has been a man’s world for at least 10,000 years. The patriarchy hates women. Although I can see the accuracy in the no-separation theory from my own life environment, I also agree with you it’s not the only factor involved, although perhaps the first factor (6-18 month old). But there are other ways to create a narcissist, too. For example:

      1. Telling the child that they are “special” and better than others. The child feels the pressure to prove this and when they fail, the parents are disappointed. VERY destructive.
      2. Of course, extreme verbal and physical abuse, alcoholism or drug abuse among caregivers, creating a schizophrenic environment for the child.
      3. Maltreatment in the adolescence, and the mother (foremost) refusing to let the adolescent exploring and thus, being overprotective.
      4. The father is extremely abusive, and the mother over-compensates by being overly protective of the child. This gives the child a very confusing message, not knowing what is love and what is hate.
      5. Some children are just born evil or with strong narc/psychopathic tendencies, whether this comes from genetics (which it sounds like in the case of one of your children), or perhaps it’s because of the soul “development,” or lack thereof.

      It sounds to me, you had all the insights necessary to be a good mother, and you succeeded–except for one child. Perhaps it’s as simple as that this child goes under category 5?

      The no-separation theory, or studies, fit very well into the cosmic drama, however. Both when it comes to us humans, in general, and to En.ki himself (the Cosmic Mother, whom we are all not separated from in a healthy way because of the Tiamat Invasion. Thus, we are looking for a Savior–the Cosmic Mother, whom we need to separate from once again to become “individuated units of consciousness,” with the emphasis on “inviduated.”

  4. Great analysis Wes and Mandobe 11. Takes a lot of Care to raise a human child correctly, the basis of the holy Trinity, being a true enlightened mother and enlightened father to produce an enlightened child. As above so below. Which that family dynamic has been hammered by the overlords for centuries I believe. I wish I knew now what I knew then but that’s what’s Wisdom is all about right? I do want to say that reuniting with our cosmic mother may very well be the remedy, I look forward to it. But we got to do the Great Work here first.

      1. Yes, that is certainly all we can do. And so long as we do that, flaws and all, we have done what we could, and I would say, we’re ready to leave…

    1. Yes, Anon. Everybody’s made mistakes, from the top of the “chain” to the bottom. The entire purpose with this Universe (Orion) is to start out in ignorance, so we can create a new slant on reality. We expand to the Source’s Knowledge (Gnosis), if you like. Even the Queen was ignorant to what her own creation would lead to when she created Orion (the Universe). Deliberately so, in order to learn and gain more Wisdom through her own insertion into this Universe, and through us humans, and through all other lifeforms in this encapsulated part of the Pleroma, which is only one universe of many (see the Wes Penre Papers, The Second Level of Learning).

      And while we are still here (before exiting the Grid), it is not only benefitting ourselves by doing the “Inner Work” i.e., healing. Because if we do, we also assist in the progress of expansion of the entire Orion Universe, and ultimately, in our own little ways, the Pleroma, and the Ultimate Source, which in my opinion is the Highest Aspect of Sophia, the Orion Queen.

      And to return to Mandobe’s post. Being a woman and a mother in THIS Matrix is not much different from being the Cosmic Mother. Doesn’t the Cosmic Mother (the Queen/Sophia) have feelings and emotions, too? Of course she does, or we would not have them either. What would creation be like without emotions and feelings? Oh, I know! Sterile.

      1. Oh yes that is part of the Great Work it’s not called work for nothing. I see my own narcissistic tendencies but now I am aware of them thanks to you because I wouldn’t have studied that stuff on my own. And to be aware of the fake gods I would like to say this, NO fake jesus, I do not want to see the many rooms in your father’s mansion! Sounds creepy when you think about it doesn’t it?

        1. Right, we all have these narcissistic tendencies, which must be acknowledged. We cannot heal if we think we’re perfect (no one is, period),Or we are really on the high end o the narcissistic scale. Still, in order to survive in the Matrix, we need SOME of what we call narcissistic traits, so long as they are not hurting other people’s freewill. Tell your story–even in a grandiose way–so long as it does not hurt those who listen. That’s perfectly fine because timidity is not good, either.

          That’s the measure: Is my EGO hurting people in my environment because I think I am for more than them, and thus, they should be stopped? That is negative competition–destroy your component(s) in order to rise and shine. Or is it just because I want to get a good position in a matrix where I need to be somewhat assertive to get what I want?

          About Jesus: I agree. Jesus is NOT a savior, or… if Jesus is the Savior, you and I ARE Jesus, because we are our own saviors. It can’t be any other way. It’s impossible. That much I can say for sure. It’s not that the message of Yeshua (Jesus) is to be ignored, even in its distorted form, but it’s YOURS and MY spiritual development that will set us free–not someone else firm advice. It’s perfectly fine to gain inspiration from somebody else’s, but regardless of how much someone wants to free another, by the end of the day, it’s up to the individual.

          1. Yes again the assertion of the feminine balance with the masculine, masculine is that outward movement but also the feminine has to guide it as well. That’s kind of way I’ve always lived my life as long as you’re not hurting other people and that’s what true morality is.

          2. Oh and yes about biblical verses a lot of I just change from father to Mother, as in the mansions, our Mother does have many dimensions I would someday like to explore, but definitely not in en.ki’s mansion. And the rest was just inserted to control people. As in all organized religions.

        2. Having received schooling in the old SFRJ in the early sixties, language , words and meaning of same was instilled to us in an unusual and uncommon manner in that conglomeration experiment of Tito’s.
          what became, and continues to be, obvious was the difference in criteria between the different cultures, their customs etc..Never more so than the weeks of discussion of the class mates and teacher at the time of studying Sparta and the criteria that was used at three years old whether the child was fit to continue, or to be dropped over the cliff and become fish-food, by the child’s own mother!!!
          Time came to study Mayan , and other latin american civilizations, and when we were informed that at the very birth, the attendant women would decide whether their blood-family member , was fit or was declared a still-birth, to the mother, and the rest of the community and father, i remember us (the primary grades students), moving about in a stupor, at the idea that such criteria existed and was applied by the so-called primitive civilizations.
          if in fact you are in serbia, Wes, you may find the , now in their late sixties , entering the 70’s, peoples to enjoy an informative conversation with in a /kafić/…..
          Cheerful Love, Grizzlybear hug

  5. I want to buy your book but my question is, is there a Spanish version? And if not, will you get it out one day? greetings

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