Gnostic Musings #12: The Divine Mind (Part 4)

by Wes Penre, November 29, 2020

This article might be the last in the series on the Divine Mind for a while, although there is a lot more to ponder on the subject. I would like to end with a dream I had and the insights that came from it.

A few weeks ago, I was waking up in the middle of the night and couldn’t go back to sleep, so I got up. After a couple of hours, I got tired and decided to  take a nap in my recliner. The last thing I remember before I fell asleep was one of our cats sleeping in the chair across the room.

I phased out and seamlessly started dreaming. Everything in my dream was just as real as in this 3-D world—even people I had never seen before, and the weight of things, their texture, and the cat dish I was holding in my hand. My cat was in the dream, and she appeared as solid as in the 3-D world. All the time, I thought I was awake. When I was about to wake up to the 3-D world, the dream slowly dissolved, but coexisted with 3-D for a couple of seconds and was then seamlessly replaced with what we call the physical world. I was back in my recliner.

This sounds like an ordinary and quite boring dream, and it was. It’s what I realized afterward that made it special to me. A few questions came to mind:

  1. Which is most real, the dream I had or me sitting in the recliner? What about the cat? She was still sleeping in the chair when I woke up, but she was also in my dream at the same time, being just as alive and physical there as she was here, from my perspective.
  2. Does this have anything to do with the “wheel,” i.e. humans repeating the same life cycle over and over?
  3. What really happens when we die, and do dreams have anything to do with dying?  

Mind you that the following are just hypotheses, but I personally find them interesting to think about and discuss, so let’s look at these questions, one by one.

So, which is most real—the dream or physical reality? Which is most physical? It’s my opinion that they are equally real, and both can be considered physical. We always perceive ourselves to be where our focus goes. When we are awake, our focus goes to being in our body and live our lives on planet Earth, but when we dream, we are in what we call the non-physical realm, although it appears to be as real and physical as this one. This also corresponds with what I learned from a source not-from-here while writing the Wes Penre Papers—their reality appears just as physical as ours. I could have lifted the cat up in my dream and petted her—it would have felt just as physical as doing it where I’m sitting now.

Can something exist in more than one place simultaneously? Yes! If we consider everything that happens to us, and everything we experience is within our own mind, it does make sense. In my mind, for example, the cat can be in the chair and in the dream simultaneously. And if we take it a step further—can I live with my family in 3-D here on Earth, while at night, I dream about them, doing similar things that we do in 3-D? Of course, I can! That would also potentially explain the mystery of living the same life over and over. Many visitors have asked us how we can reincarnate into the same life over and over and with the same siblings if the siblings were still alive when we died? It doesn’t synch. Well, if you think of everything being in YOUR mind, there are as many versions of your family you can possibly imagine (and more). The physical world is just a projection of the inner world/mind, so we can replay a part of our mind over and over (the same lifetime, for example) and make similar mistakes and do similar things, until we start making other choices. Add amnesia to that, and we humans don’t really know that we’re doing this. Inside our minds, no time exists, so several things can happen simultaneously. Time is something that is added when we perceive ourselves on a linear timeline, but it doesn’t exist inside of us—only in our outside, linear projections.

Another thing that stood out in the dream was how seamlessly the two realities shifted—no effort, no pain, no strangeness. As we’ve discussed in previous material, we humans have a fear-of-death implant in conjunction with amnesia, which puts most humans in survival mode to a lesser or larger degree. What would happen if the fear of death wasn’t there at all?

Let’s say we have an old man on his deathbed, and he is about to take his last breath. We have heard stories about how some people in this state start “hallucinate” and they “see things.” It can be angels, demons, or dead relatives, for instance. Then they die. So, what happens? Isn’t it just the soul/mind shifting from one inner perspective to another? When the old man dies, he just seamlessly moves his consciousness into a “dream,” i.e. the astral, where his journey continues—no big deal. In other words, it’s no major difference between my dream, where I seamlessly switch realities from how it is to die. And most of us are not afraid of sleeping and dreaming. The only thing that differs is that when I die, I don’t come back to my body, and the so-called “silver cord” is being detached. Other than that, it’s the same thing. Thus, we “die” every time we fall asleep, and the dream is another phase of the soul’s journey. This is the reason why it’s so important to be in control of our thoughts to the best of our ability because in the death moment, we will most likely experience what our minds are focused upon.

There is a common astral playground that’s agreed to, just like here in our 3-D realm, but we are still unique beings (spirit-soul-mind), and if we meet other souls in the astral, it’s like meeting another person in this life—we are both unique with our unique history and minds—we just lack the solid human bodies.

We can never know another person completely because we can’t consciously enter another person’s “dreams”/mind-state. All we can do is assume how someone else is, based on what he or she tells us, when this other person, just like ourselves, is indeed complex and multi-dimensional.

Lucid dreaming is when the Higher Mind realizes that it is participating in its own creation, i.e. it dreams and starts observing its own mind’s creation on a “lower” level. When that is realized, we can participate in our own dream if we like. So, why don’t we just naturally participate in our dreams? We do, because we actually create them ourselves, but it is so natural that we don’t think about it, just like we don’t think about that we participate in our own creations in the 3-D world, either, although we do. However, the Higher Mind does not always seem to be involved in the dream. Thus, in lucid dreaming, we can consciously change things around in our dream environment, i.e. our mind’s creation. Again, what is more real—our dreams or our awake state? I would say they are equally real. Both are creations of our minds.

The next article will be about some additional thoughts on the Grid.


  1. Great stuff Wes. I always thought that dream states are trips deeper into the Divine Mind. I normally don’t remember mine but when I do they are as real as the day is long. All Is Mind Use It Wisely!

    1. Dreams are an interesting topic indeed. I find that I rarely dream anymore, at least I don’t remember them. My sleep is sporadic and rarely get more than 4 straight hours. Maybe that’s why. I remember telling my son when he was little that dreams were his mind’s way of trying to understand the world around him. As a child, the world is a big mysterious place so your mind is more stimulated and as you get older and understand more about the world the fewer questions your mind has. Of course that was just an opinion but kids want answers and we adults want to pretend to have them, right?

      I can recall as a child, back when 8 hours of straight sleep was normal, my alarm clock beeping-waking me up for elementary school but I was actually transitioning from a dream where the beeping sound was something else in my dream. I forget what. I though how strange that was as I opened my eyes.

      Also, a friend told me when he visited his dad in the hospital while on his death bed that his dad started seeing things-saying “they’re coming for me.” He was hallucinating or seeing what is not visible ordinarily I guess but it was startling to my friend. His dad died the next day.

      One last comment, I wanted to see if you and Ariel have commented on the Amanita Muscaria mushroom symbology and how the Gnostics viewed it. Anton K on FB I thought posted a video about it or maybe it was a twitter account I follow but I can’t find it again. I didn’t finish it. There’s other videos but this one was about John Allegro and the Dead Sea scrolls he translated and the book he wrote called the Sacred Mushroom and the Cross. Whoa! Great stuff. I recently saw a video about Astana, Khazakhstan and the New World HQ possibly that Nursultan Nazarbayev had built and now renamed Nursultan after himself. The egg atop the tall (hands outstretched) base looks like the Amanita mushroom as it sprouts. This is the center piece of the new capital layout symbolism he had designed.

  2. Very interesting though I diverge on the thought that we may be living the same life over and over. I find that belief so intensely distasteful – hellish, just hellish – that I, for one, absolutely reject that as my reality. I much prefer to believe we reincarnate into many varied types of lives and identities, perhaps, to gain as much knowledge, wisdom, and insight as we deem necessary to expand.

    1. Hi MoonStars. Yes, this is something only you can conclude in your own mind whether it’s true or not. That’s what’s important–your OWN conclusions.

      1. I sent an email for Q&A about this very subject because I have been pondering it a lot lately. It was a long email with multiple questions so I won’t go into now, but if we are doing the same life over and over, is it possible to make gigantic changes or are we stuck to pretty much the same script? For instance, am I always married to the same woman or could I marry someone else one time, which would completely change my life, including the children I have?

  3. I have a question.. this is about the source not-from-here.. is this source is the one who tells you that we can escape using the hole in the grid? How do we know that this source is not decieving you? And if the answer to my first question is YES.. why this source offers us a lazy way to escape.. and why this source tells us how to escape instead of taking the responsibilty of our planet and become a real humans.. i find it bizarre when someone tells me to escape in a lazy way.. i guess by taking the responsiblity of yourself, identify the attitudes and things that dont serve you, and eradicating the victim mentality will help human to achieve the real freedom (escape in your term) be careful wes.. i know i dont know you but still be careful and dont forget you are human too.. dont be the reason of another misconception and misdirection in which why humanity can never advance their consciousness for thousands of years.. you have follower thats listen or believe in you.. think that always..

    1. I really appreciate that you think about these things! All I can say about that from a personal perspective is that everything that happened during the writing of the Wes Penre Papers is my experience, and I relay it to you all the way I have concluded it and what rings/rang true for me, put in context during a 6 years interaction. This does NOT mean that everybody else should take my word for it–question everything and come to your own conclusion. Not only YOU, but that goes for everybody. BTW, the next article will be about the Grid. There are many different angles to look at this from…

      Regarding myself: I feel confident in sharing my experiences from the Wes Penre Papers up to this day. Is everything 100% correct? No, we all learn as we go along. Very often, as time goes by, we are able to expand on previous information. IOW, everything Ariel and I release is almost always in chronological order–you can follow my and her progress from point A to point Z. None of us claim to sit on the absolute truth, which we also are careful to point out in every video and in the Wes Penre Papers. People who take part of our research need to keep this in mind. It’s food for thought, and we are just hoping that it will help some readers and listeners on their way to form their own conclusions about things.

      1. @wes ..I know this reply is a little too late.. i found out that those self apointed overlords wanted those awake humans to leave earth because if the numbers of humans who are awake grows exponentially then they are in trouble.. they want you to escape through the hole in the grid because most humans has an escapist mentality and coward not to face and fix their own dilemma.. what my intuition tells me that i need to stay amd help my brothers and sisters to fix the earths problem..

        If 2% of humans population focus on this goal then the law of attraction will definitely work.. this law is immutable.. i know it is started to manifest right now.. many humans are awake and of course i dont include those people who protest in the street.. icke is a puppet of the overlords and humans are so gullible by not recognizing icke’s agenda.. the real solution is not protesting.. what you resist,persist.. if you continue to sell us the hole in the grid and goddess then perhaps i would include you in the list of the puppet of the self appointed overlords.. there is no queen.. we are all awareness and anyone who claim to be the queen of the stars is suspicious… we are all creators.. all those queen and prince are just another heirarchy.. the galactic council is the real deal.. they now know what is going on earth and they lend help to humans that want real freedom.. help is here but its up to humans if they are willing to take the responsiblity to take care of this planet and claim back the ownership of this planet… we own this planet…

        I believe you when you said the humanity is the hostage here.. they cant help us becAuse we protect the prison guards.. we are being tricked..

        Most of what you write on the WPP is true.. the hole in the grid,the queen,prince ninurta and the orioner never resonated with me as i go along this journey.. they are too are our captor in the past.. they want to enslaved us again..

        Help comes to those people who help themselves..

        1. Hello. Your heart’s desire to help the humans and save the earth is certainly a noble one. I can feel the sincerity and love in you for this life. I have spent my life trying to help/heal/support. Many others in my circle have done the same. But the reality is that things seem to continue to NOT improve. I also consider this reality to be cruel. Everything down to the smallest insect is born with the desire to live, but in order to live we have to destroy other beings, whether animals or plants. Animals eat plants or other animals. The whole place is about death and deterioration. The “circle of life” none sense just puts a happy spin on a an extremely cruel system filled with pain and fear. I don’t know about queens, princes or councils, but I’m trying as hard as I can to cut the ties that bind me here and connect to higher self or whatever it’s called, for proper guidance in the afterlife. All the best to you.

          1. This is an interesting debate, and if we think about how things progress or regress, we can also look at it like this: are people actually waking up in numbers, or is humanity falling deeper into darkness?

            To try to answer that question for myself, I need to look at myself and how I started out. Now, when the pandemic is causing isolation, many people have time to dig into alternative answers. What happens then? They stumble upon government deceits, corruption, the “Illuminati,” and perhaps evil aliens. When I was at that point, it must have looked like I actually regressed because it was shocking and depressing at first, and it rather lowered my vibration in some ways (and increased it in other–like a rollercoaster thing), until after understanding things better, it turned around to a progression.

            What I mean is that when a person starts waking up, he often goes through the dark night of the soul before he rises again and continues the journey toward liberation. So, if people wake up in large quantities, perhaps that’s what we will see first, thinking everything is going downhill when it’s not. This is just another spin on it.

            Then it’s a matter of how much time humanity has to wake up and turn things around.

            1. @wes penre.. its about time.. wether they wake up or not.. but still i will not disregard the 2% of population.. when the shift of conciousness occur those who already know who they are will not be overwhelm.. earth needs a great chaos.. its the only way to birth a new awareness for humanity.. this chaos will be the fork in the road.. its up to humanity .. the fate of this species is in the hand of those awake how they will able to help the asleep..

              Im helping humanity.. i will..

              1. If we only worry about and focus on what everyone outside of us is doing and not doing then we, in a sense, remain blind to our own obligation to do and not do what is good and right.

                There are some really thought-provoking passages in the Bible about this kind of stuff. A good one is the parable of the Mote and the Beam. Look it up, if you’re interested. The blindness that we are so willing to point out in others is only a projection of our own blindness. At least, that’s one way to look at it. There is no one who is especially enlightened here that they can set themselves above others and say “the fault is on you”. That kind of goes back to consenting to be judged by the rules under which you judge your brother. We are all participating in a reality here, but we set the rules. We (in my opinion) need to be very careful when we apply those rules and insist that others conform to them because then WE must also do the same. If we don’t, then WE are the guilty and accountable ones, not those we are pointing the finger at.

                If that’s how it works here, that is…

                1. Hi ariel, i dont have anything to worry. Im on the winningside.. the eartg belongs to earth inhabitants .. not those from offworld.. this is not for sophia or enki … it is belong to us humans on earth.. earth is a paradise for me.. the only reason it is not a paradise because humans allowed others to ruled them..

                  1. Pardon me if I got it wrong, but it seems like you are claiming your right to live on this material construct forever. Since we are spirits, the earth is not our eternal home.

                    1. Hi luisa.. the material and immaterial world are both our home.. if you love to live in immaterial world forever then its your choice.. the learning and the creation will not stop.. its infinite.. you cant gain wisdom in the immaterial realm(no body)..

              2. @ Iamhumanbecominghelpmetobecome
                I appreciate your viewpoint but we have to be aware that this will always be Enki’s construct/Sophia’s unconscious mind, chaos or not. Learn the lessons while you are here and then leave.

                1. @anonymous .. it is not sophias mind.. it is your mind.. you are sovereign and free.. you are an individual unit of awareness … its up to you how to use the gift..

              3. @Iamhumanbecominghelpmetobecome

                The way I see it is that we are here for the experience. To experience everything we are not.

          2. @going clear… ask yourself where do i go after i escape from earth? You have no place to go unless you are ready to become a galactic citizen.. or have given a chance to continue your incarnation somewhere in the other galaxies.. if you choose to stay in an immaterial state (no body ) then your conciousness evolution will also stop.. material and immaterial world are interwoven .. this is design in order for our awareness to experience things.. without this physical creation the awareness will only live on knowledge but cant gain wisdom.. we need physical world so that these knowledge become wisdom.. the only problem here on earth is the alteration of the creation and the severe manipulation.. how can we evolve if the government and religion limiting us to experience things? How can we evolve if we allow them to alter our biological body? Thats why we need to eradicate the victim mentality.. as to your opinion about the pain and suffering here on earth, for me its a part of the experience.. our awareness is immortal, your pain and suffering are nothing.. its all in the mind.. i know you wont believe me if i tell you that we have power.. its not supernatural or mystical.. its all natural.. we are powerful beings.. dont worry about the dog eat dog scenario because no one really dies.. do they suffer? Yes… all suffering and pain is worth it if you can gain more wisdom on it..

  4. I am in awe! great article and reflections! and the timing… wow! recently I saw a movie,please watch it if you can…it is better if you don’t see the trailer :)) !

  5. Greetings Wes, I started reading your posts at the beginning of my quarantine, I was fascinated by the levels of learning and the whole process until reaching the Gnostic texts, I would like to congratulate you for the brilliant work you have published (which includes all the collaborators). I don’t speak English, so I apologize for the translation. I am only 25 years old and 5 years ago I started the path of eliminating social programming, unconscious but intuiting that this was the path. Until this publication I feel completely identified, that is, I have asked myself the same questions and I notice that life is like walking in circles, and practically the final questions after the crossing turn out to be the same ones that started it all. Like a dog chasing its tail (sounds like a cliché). Anyway, I would like to comment on a couple of situations that seem to give me a lot to think about no matter how much it is known, but I do not want to extend the message.

  6. Hi Wes,
    Interesting timing of this article. Lately, I have been thinking about what one lady said that she experienced some trauma and found herself travelling the universe, completely forgetting about this life. Then, next thing you know she found herself back in the body. I begin to think all these experiences are really just mind adventures.

  7. Hi Wes, Ariel and all!
    First I want to thank you, Wes and Ariel. I think you are doing a really great work. Much has been fallen to place since I began to read and watch your articles and videos. I like that you tell your audience to do research on our own too. By the years I have realised that you need several angles, and that you encourage, thank you!
    Second I wanted to tell about a movie, called: The Fountain. It might be boring at the beginning, but it turn up to be telling us something about our eternal life. At around 1:15 the story really get interesting. Just wanted to share.

  8. Hi Wes
    You said that we live the same life over and over again… same country, parents,same timeline, almost same experiences,so…the question is how can we evolve If we have same life experiences again and again and mostly same lessons to learn.
    That means perhaps I’ve read wpp many past lifes times and I’m still in the same place,and I’ll be reading again and again in my so called future lifes, because of this construct, which I personally disagree with… How can get gnosis if you’re born let’s say a slave and you’re oppressed life after life, after life with no chance of knowing something else..
    If you’re not born in a environment where you can experience different aspects of yourself I don’t think you can get knowledge, especially in one life,or in a life that is within a weel within a weel, my opinion.
    I’m a orthodox Christian but from a early age I’ve started questioning everything, including God,and last year I was finally home in quarantine because of pandemic and started to read the Bible.
    It was not what I expected,and searching more info about the Bible and the red sea papers I found your papers… what you seek it’s seeking your ,sort of. Read it all and I t felt incomplete until I read the gnosis,and everything all the dots ,the missing parts was put together and finally lightening everything my soul, spirit knew… it is the confirmation.
    You said about your dream like being as real as this reality and which ones ar real? But how about dreaming portals opening in thin air and sucking you in,, dreaming demons fighting you so often that you you don’t get impressed by them anymore, endless wars with total destruction , where the planet is so radioactive and toxic that we have to wear biohazard suits. Dreaming babies being born at thousands miles away from me…(becoming her Godfather but not expecting to be), dreaming about being an alien on a different planet exploring a specie from a different univers , or being stranded on a planet on war with an invader force from another planet bombing us with their UFO , dropping bombs on 20 ft tall beings, or dreaming about being astral projected outside earth and next second standing in front of a bright artificial satellite , mentos shaped and big and said that our sun is not artificial so must be a different solar system,and when you look further into space you see thousands of same shape satellites in perfect distance from one another and figure out that is a Dyson sphere (first and last time I didn’t want to go back from where I came … planet)…I know it is all my mind but still…wtf
    My dreams are more interesting than my current Life.
    What all this means if is like you say,a weel within a weel within a weel close to your current Life

    1. Thanks for a great post, Florin. Yes, we can ask ourselves, what is more real? The dream scenarios you presented, being very vivid, or this 3D reality? Well, no matter what you dream, you return here eventually. Does that mean Earth reality is more real than the others? Not necessarily, but we humans are programmed to have our main focus here, so this is what we always return to. Still, we have all experienced dreams that feel just as real as this, but we “wake up” because our programming tells us to.

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